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New 440 build, sitting 5 years???

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  • New 440 build, sitting 5 years???

    Not sure what to do?? I found a 440 motor build with all the good stuff inside> crank,cam.heads,pistons etc, and a receipt on it for $4,200.00, no intake, or balancer,,, I bought it for $500.00,, I KNOW.
    question is, do I need to break it down any, grease ur up, or what? Better new gaskets than another rebuild I think. ADVISE WILL HELP. THANKS.....

  • #2
    What's the date of the receipt?

    If the engine has been in a clean and dry place, it should be alright.

    I would at least put a squirt of oil in each spark plug hole, take the valve covers off and put a squirt of oil down each push rod hole. Then put a socket on the balancer bolt and give the crank a full rotation to lube things up a little. If you give a 360 degree rotation of the crank and it feels good, then the engine is most likely ok.

    Before you start it in a car, fill it with oil, pull the distributor, and spin the pump with a drill.
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    • #3
      Like BK said but I would also spin the motor over by hand while you are priming it with the oil pump. That way the lifters and all will get lubricated
      His car wasn't that fast, I caught him on the return road and passed him in the pits.
      2006 Dodge 2500 CTD


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      • #4
        another question

        Originally posted by BK View Post
        What's the date of the receipt?

        If the engine has been in a clean and dry place, it should be alright.

        I would at least put a squirt of oil in each spark plug hole, take the valve covers off and put a squirt of oil down each push rod hole. Then put a socket on the balancer bolt and give the crank a full rotation to lube things up a little. If you give a 360 degree rotation of the crank and it feels good, then the engine is most likely ok.

        Before you start it in a car, fill it with oil, pull the distributor, and spin the pump with a drill.
        There is no balancer on the crank! question: I do not know if it is internal or external balanced, and read not to mess up with that??? Is there a way to tell? I only know there KB PISTONS AND ALUMINUM RODS,FORGED CRANK,ground -10 under, CAM IS A 292/509 PURPLE, and heads were ported. Other than that, i'm not sure if builder would do a internal balance..

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        • #5
          Aluminum rods? That's kinda an odd build. What's your plan for the engine? Aluminum rods are generally a race only deal....

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          • #6
            What is the intended use?? and stall to be used it's important.
            Intake choice is important. Street strip hard to beat the Edelbrock RPM performer.

            Forged crank and aluminum rods will be internal balance. Just get a good balancer.

            Was the cam degreed?? It is fairly important.
            I would definitely degree it before installing the motor.
            What 509 cam there is a 108 and a 114 LSA cam the 108 is the best and likes to be installed 102 to 104 no later.
            Aluminum rods?? what kind.

            Heads what kind.

            like they said if it was dry and sealed oil down the spark plugs, Molly lube or engine honey liberally over the cam lobes, lube up the rockers and valve tops. get a priming tool
            P4286800

            http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/oilpumprimto.html
            and spin the oil pump to prime oil everywhere while turning motor over by hand or with the starter. (cam directs oil to first one bank then the other) You can do it on the engine stand before install and again right before you start it.
            tool at summit or your local dealer
            http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4286800

            Don't cheap out on the balancer get a fluid damper or ATI

            again What is the intended use, torque converter and rear gears

            ---------- Post added at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------

            Originally posted by Cranky View Post
            Aluminum rods? That's kinda an odd build. What's your plan for the engine? Aluminum rods are generally a race only deal....
            Your getting old Cranky aluminum rods in the last 20 years are fine for the street with the new aluminum they use. And good for 600 to 1000 hard 1/4 runs unless your are stressing them with 7700 to 8500 + rpms run after run then maybe 200 to 300 NOS maybe less.

            The big thing with aluminum rods is to warm motor and oil up before reving them to much or beating on them. They like to be warm but so do I!

            :ROFLMAO:

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            • #7
              Getting old? Already there! Been a few years since looking at the silver metal. What's different about them?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dodgeboy8 View Post
                What is the intended use?? and stall to be used it's important.
                Intake choice is important. Street strip hard to beat the Edelbrock RPM performer.

                Forged crank and aluminum rods will be internal balance. Just get a good balancer.

                Was the cam degreed?? It is fairly important.
                I would definitely degree it before installing the motor.
                What 509 cam there is a 108 and a 114 LSA cam the 108 is the best and likes to be installed 102 to 104 no later.
                Aluminum rods?? what kind.

                Heads what kind.

                like they said if it was dry and sealed oil down the spark plugs, Molly lube or engine honey liberally over the cam lobes, lube up the rockers and valve tops. get a priming tool
                P4286800

                http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/oilpumprimto.html
                and spin the oil pump to prime oil everywhere while turning motor over by hand or with the starter. (cam directs oil to first one bank then the other) You can do it on the engine stand before install and again right before you start it.
                tool at summit or your local dealer
                http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4286800

                Don't cheap out on the balancer get a fluid damper or ATI

                again What is the intended use, torque converter and rear gears

                ---------- Post added at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------



                Your getting old Cranky aluminum rods in the last 20 years are fine for the street with the new aluminum they use. And good for 600 to 1000 hard 1/4 runs unless your are stressing them with 7700 to 8500 + rpms run after run then maybe 200 to 300 NOS maybe less.

                The big thing with aluminum rods is to warm motor and oil up before reving them to much or beating on them. They like to be warm but so do I!

                :ROFLMAO:
                THANKS FOR THE INPUT! answers... do not know cam other than 292/509 he was goin to use it a cuda>street car. Myself, it will go into a 71 roadrunner, and mild goodies as to rear-end, and maybe 2500 converter?? if that be good/. Heads are stamped rollers, all I see,and he said which I see were ported, and dual springs, all I see so far... wow1 balencers air't cheap are they. looked in JEGS... SHOULD I USE A STOCK FLYWHEEL 383-440, THAT I HAVE..... OR WAS DUMP QUESTION....

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                • #9
                  Buy an engine stand and mount the engine. Flip it bottom up and pull the pan. Verify aluminum rods and maybe pull a cap or two to inspect the bearings.

                  Aluminum rods have a limited life, stretch, and go bad from periods of extreme cold then heat. Not good rods for street motors.

                  In the free classifieds there there is a good deal on a SFI balancer, and quite a few RB intakes and carbs.
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                  Members are encouraged to be Participants, by posting.
                  Check out my Blog "Life & Times of an Old NSS Racer"

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                  • #10
                    A 2500 stall is likely too tight for a 509. when you degree the cam you want to verify what LSA it is as it makes a difference.
                    For the standard 509 install it at 102 if you are going 2500 but even installed at 102 you should go with a 3000 stall (2800-3200)

                    For intake then definitely a Eddy RPM performer and best bet would be a holley 3310 or a 750 to 770 avenger series vacuum secondaries.

                    At your performance and rpm range you will never stress or hurt aluminum rods for a very long time if they are new?? iron heads with 509 cam are all done at 5800 shifting higher than that is a waste and will likely slow you down overall.

                    You may want to consider a milder cam while it's easy to install??

                    ---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------

                    Originally posted by Cranky View Post
                    Getting old? Already there! Been a few years since looking at the silver metal. What's different about them?
                    Read all about it below or hear
                    http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm

                    Urban legends abound in the gearhead community. One is: aluminum connecting rods don't work in street engines. Prior to the mid-'70s, that might have been true, however, introduction of the Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Connecting Rod in 1975 provided an exception to that myth.

                    The BME Rod has great durability in high-end, high-power, street/strip or hot street engines because it is die-forged, rather than cut out of a plate. Bill Miller Engineering's unique, aluminum alloy further enhances fatigue strength such that the durability of BME Rod rivals that of many forged steel rods and exceeds that of a few.

                    About 20 years ago, a few resourceful engine builders, led by H-O Racing's, Ken Crocie, began using BME Rods in very-high-performance street engines. Crocie, a racing and street/strip Pontiac V8 specialist, faced with a shortage of acceptable steel rods for Pontiacs, began to use BME Aluminum Rods. While a few other engine builders followed Crocie's lead, admittedly, use of the Bill MIller Engineering Rod in street engines has not been widespread, but that's only because of its higher cost and the stubborn belief that any aluminum rod is unsuitable for street use.



                    "In a street application, using the aluminum rod is a no brainer," BME President, Bill Miller, recently said in an interview with an automotive magazine. "I don't know how the myth that aluminum rods can't be used on the street got started, but I'll guess that, back in the 60s and early-70s, they weren't making them using the process we're using, today. With the material we've got and they way we manufacture the connecting rods, they'll live a couple hundred thousand miles on the street because a street application is, for the most part, low load. Our basic Aluminum Rod is made for 10,000 rpm and 800-hp. The design criteria for the connecting rod is way overkill for what it's going see on the street. We been running aluminum rods on the street for 20 years."

                    Why build a street engine with BME Rods? One reason is the "cool factor." Bill Miller Engineering Rods are unique, high-end racing parts and there always will be people who spend extra money to have the same rods in their engines as Tony Schumacher or John Force puts in theirs. More importantly, there are practical reasons for using BME Rods—the same reasons racers use them: less reciprocating and rotating mass due to their comparative lightness. That allows the engine to accelerate quicker and make more power as it does so. Lighter rods also improve throttle response and allow the engine to run reliably at a higher rpm than it could with steel rods.

                    You do a couple of things differently when setting-up a street engine for BME Rods. Minimum bearing clearance at room temperature should be .002-.0025-in. Wrist pin clearance should be .0006-.0008-in. Rod side clearance should be .020-in. The engine's oiling system needs to be appropriate for a racing application which typically runs larger rod bearing clearances once the oil reaches operating temperature. The oiling system must be configured to provide 10 psi, hot oil pressure for every 1000 rpm in the engine's rpm range.

                    Under no circumstances should 5W30 engine oil be used. If you insist on petroleum-based oil, minimum acceptable is a 20W50. A better choice is a premium synthetic and minimum acceptable is a 10W30 synthetic. Bill Miller Engineering recommends Red Line Oil for use with its Forged Aluminum Rods. While Red Line oil lubricates reliably at oil temperatures up to 300 deg. F, the optimum oil temperature range for an engine using BME Rods and Red Line Oil is 200-250 deg. F. Lastly, engines with BME Rods must not be run at high load or high rpm until oil temperature reaches at least 125 deg. F.

                    Standard BME Forged Aluminum Connecting Rods for most production Chevrolet, Chrysler and Pontiac V8s are reliable replacements for steel rods in engines of up to 800 horsepower. Aluminum Rods for some Ford V8s of similar power output are available on special order. A Big-Block Chevrolet style, Pro Stock rod, good to 1200-hp, is, also, available. If the application is a Chrysler 426 Hemi or big-block "wedge", BME's blown-alcohol rods can be used at levels well over 2000-hp and have outstanding reliability/durability.

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                    • #11
                      If you want to be sure of EXACTLY what you have, tear it down, inspect the parts, measure clearances, etc., and reassemble. Then you will KNOW and not have to take anyone's word on what's inside.
                      Paul, aka 'zij576ca'
                      Lifer #49
                      Member & webmaster, The Mopar Club of San Diego

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                      • #12
                        :iagree:

                        yup a gasket set is inexpensive go through what you have and be a piece yourself and the world!

                        :beer:

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                        • #13
                          Many racers replace their BME rods at 200-300 passes. Kenny at Indy suggests every year.

                          When the break they take the whole engine with them. I lost $20,000 in a freshened engine when a BME rod took the Mega black, Callie's crank, Lunati cam, headers, oil pump and pan, starter motor; and damaged the heads, transmission, and converter.






                          If your engine has only $5000 in receipts and aluminum rods, I'll bet they're used.
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                          Members are encouraged to be Participants, by posting.
                          Check out my Blog "Life & Times of an Old NSS Racer"

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                          • #14
                            Is that the one you lost at Houston a few years back and everyone was pulling your chain anyways? All I can say is that you took that in good stride lol

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                            • #15
                              Back in the first days of PM we would change rods every 3rd race on the 707.. On the 615 ..every 4 races..
                              Still have plenty of "Ash Trays"

                              Last edited by ~~Mutt~~; 12-31-2012, 03:25 PM.
                              9-1-1 or 1911 Your Choice. Choose Wisely

                              Member USCCA

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