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View Full Version : Cold start, YES! Warm start, NO! 318-4bbl



irishrrt
08-01-2012, 11:51 AM
Hi all! This is my first post here. I have a 1986 Ram D150 with a 318 and a 4 barrel edlebrock carb. Ok, I'm an absolute mechanical novice so any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is my trouble. The first time I start the truck everyday it fires right up with no problems or hesitation (takes one press of the gass pedal before I turn the key). After I drive the truck around or to the store or wherever, the truck won't start. It will crank and every now and then it will start with a little gas pedal play. This problem has gotten progressively worse the last two weeks and now it definitely won't start after a quick trip. I'm wondering if its a flooding or carb issue? The truck has a rough idle when it runs but it stays running and accelerates smoothly.

Thanks guys, please be as specific as possible.

dodgeboy8
08-01-2012, 11:21 PM
boiling the shit gas when it sits hot pump it good twice and hold it 1/2 open till it starts.

blocking the heat crossover under the carb helps (maybe a bit testy in the winter)

heat sheilds help
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=carburetor%20heat%20sheilds&dds=1
or carb spacer wood or plastic.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Carburetor-Spacers/?keyword=carburetor+spacers&kr=carburetor+spacers

Gageraid
08-02-2012, 01:52 AM
How's the choke?

270SE
08-02-2012, 02:28 AM
boiling the shit gas when it sits hot pump it good twice and hold it 1/2 open till it starts.

blocking the heat crossover under the carb helps (maybe a bit testy in the winter)

heat sheilds help
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=carburetor%20heat%20sheilds&dds=1
or carb spacer wood or plastic.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Carburetor-Spacers/?keyword=carburetor+spacers&kr=carburetor+spacers
Biggest problems right there.

Usually on those hot starts you just have to hold it- but you often will in the weather most places now.

If you've got a shiny carb mounted straight to the intake you may really be boiling the fuel.

irishrrt
08-02-2012, 03:00 PM
BOILING - Ok, I don't think I'm boiling the gas. I can let it sit for hours and it still struggles to start. If I let it sit all night it fires right up.

CHOKE - I'm a true novice here but I think I need a least some choke adjustment. When I start the truck and let it run it idles pretty high, i need to rev it once to get it to idle a little lower.

I'm going to replace the fuel filter tonight, hoping for that $5 fix but I'm wondering if I need to play with the floats or could timing have anything to do with it?

Thanks guys

dodgeboy8
08-03-2012, 05:36 PM
Don't discount the hot gas thing! ( My 2 cents )

irishrrt
08-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Here's the update for today. I changed the fuel filter and the starter. I killed the starter cranking too much in the last week. I started the truck this morning on the first key turn. I drove it for about 20 minutes. When I cut it off I can start it right back up with no trouble. If I let it sit for 15-20 minutes I get trouble. I drove around this morning and shut it off around 10am. I just went out at 8pm and still gave me trouble. i cranked it with no gas, then with the pedal all the way down and nothing. I pumed a few times and nothing again. I gave it one last key turn and it fired. Choke was all the way open every time I looked at it today.

Oh on the boiling gas thing, i rerouted the gas line to the carb to give it give it some extra space.

dodgeboy8
08-03-2012, 08:35 PM
A warm motor should not need any choke. the gas gets heated and goes somewhat dead from the heat soaking up form the intake into the carb.
Just the way it is now days get some spacers plastic or wood listed above. My 2 cents

gsmagnum
08-03-2012, 09:18 PM
I hope you went with the Denso style starter. (Spec for a 92 or newer V8) It seems to draw less when turning the engine and it seems like it spins it faster. I know they are more expensive (unless you go to a JY), but they do a much better job than the classic gear reduction unit.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

You should adjust the idle screws with the truck running hot. My old truck would idle rough when the engine was warm when running cheap gas. I had to turn the idle screws out slightly.
Your carb manual (You can go to the Edelbrock site and download it too) will tell you how to adjust them.

~~Mutt~~
08-03-2012, 10:18 PM
First things first.. Let the engine tell you what is going on.. Take out some spark plugs and read them. This is what I would do first.. and take some pictures..
Sorry bout the music.. not my vid

SPARK PLUG READING - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiMM2S0aADM)

Gageraid
08-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Fuel pressure?

ronnysplymouth
08-06-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm thinking its more likely an ignition issue because its too intermittent to be fuel...............I think its time for an ECM

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------

When it wont start check for spark....

Dobaroy
08-07-2012, 07:43 AM
Why not put one of those see thru Mr. Gasket filters on the line going to the carb and when it wont start see if there is any gas in that filter?

irishrrt
08-16-2012, 12:52 PM
UPDATE: Truck sat for 11 days and I needed to pour a little gas in the carb to fire it up (choke was mostly closed). I changed the fuel pump this morning and it fired up with no problems. I ran it and drove it for 30ish minutes and I can cut it off and on with no problems. After letting it sit for 20 minutes I had to give it gas while turning the key to get it started (didn't take long, just a quick press of the gas). I let it sit for 30 minutes again and needed a press of the pedal to start it. Much better than cranking and pumping that I have been doing. Will see how it goes. Thanks for all the help guys! My luck isn't good enough for this to be the total fix so check back for updates.

BK
08-16-2012, 04:56 PM
Glad you got it fixed -- I was going to ask what your Initial and total timing were -- and what engine you had. Also what the temp gauge was saying before your shut it off -- and when you were trying to start. Sometime timing too low over heats the motor and affects hot starts -- if the other advice hadn't solved.

irishrrt
08-16-2012, 10:36 PM
Thanks BK! I have a 5.2L 318 with a 4 bbl Edelbrock 600 carb. This truck has no factory temp gauge so I'm unsure on that. Timing is the next thing im going to check into. I'll report back with how that goes.

dodgeboy8
08-17-2012, 08:44 AM
A spacer under the carb will help even more.
My 2 cents

R-body_mopar
08-17-2012, 08:10 PM
UPDATE: Truck sat for 11 days and I needed to pour a little gas in the carb to fire it up (choke was mostly closed). I changed the fuel pump this morning and it fired up with no problems. I ran it and drove it for 30ish minutes and I can cut it off and on with no problems. After letting it sit for 20 minutes I had to give it gas while turning the key to get it started (didn't take long, just a quick press of the gas). I let it sit for 30 minutes again and needed a press of the pedal to start it. Much better than cranking and pumping that I have been doing. Will see how it goes. Thanks for all the help guys! My luck isn't good enough for this to be the total fix so check back for updates.


If the choke was "mostly" closed after 11 days, you need to adjust the choke spring tension.....it should be tight-shut on a cold start, even in warm weather. ;)

On your hot starts, is the choke fully open??? :confused:

A part throttle position when restarting warm is normal; if you need to hold the throttle full open to restart, then you are flooded.

Do you get any vapor or smoke coming up out of the carb after sitting for several minutes when shut off HOT?? :confused: If so, you are probably percolating from heat, or the float setting is too high.

And don't forget.......today's gasoline is CRAP; you may need to use a higher octane fuel......:rolleyes:.....or one without ethanol....IF you can find it! :mad:

irishrrt
08-21-2012, 10:47 PM
On hot starts the choke is fully open and I havent had any smoke or vapor from the carb after sitting. It has started almost every time and much more reliably since replacing the fuel pump.

I'll check the choke springs, Thanks R!

irishrrt
08-28-2012, 12:44 AM
Here we go. So I thought the fuel pump helped alot but it didnt. It had been cooler recently and starting much better. Today was 91 degrees and it was the same ole same. Started and ran early then had tons of trouble firing after sitting in the sun. I'm wondering if it is ignition related?

Dobaroy
08-28-2012, 08:10 AM
With one of our Dobas, 400 motor, we installed a small electric fuel pump behind the passenger wheel and plumbed it into the gas line, threw out the cigarette lighter, replaced it with a push button switch. Now when it gives trouble like you have, we just pump up the gas. I do think Dodge Boy is right about raising the carb but we haven't done that yet. Plan to do that project this winter.

dodgeboy8
08-28-2012, 08:40 AM
Here we go. So I thought the fuel pump helped alot but it didnt. It had been cooler recently and starting much better. Today was 91 degrees and it was the same ole same. Started and ran early then had tons of trouble firing after sitting in the sun. I'm wondering if it is ignition related?

I told you it is the gas getting heated get a plastic or wood spacer and move on!

---------- Post added at 08:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

Links are in my first post.

irishrrt
08-29-2012, 10:07 PM
Aight DB, for $30 I think I might give that spacer a shot! If it works, I'm coming back to give you your due!

Fugly
08-29-2012, 10:36 PM
Tighten up the distributor reluctor gap

irishrrt
05-14-2013, 01:18 PM
Ok, back again. Winter is over and the truck ran fine and started all winter long. Now that it's getting warm again I'm having the same problems. I'm thinking no spark. I Tuned it up (plugs, wires, cap and button) and it started and ran smoother than it has in a while (at idle). So thinking that's not the entire hot weather problem I decided to switch out the coil as well. Since then, no start at all. I tried a different coil so that's not the problem. The only thing different on it is the condenser attached to the negative post of the coil. I also changed out the relay/module that sits just below the rotor button on top of the distributor. All wires are seated properly on both ends and in the right order. Thanks in advance!

~~Mutt~~
05-14-2013, 04:56 PM
Still... How did the plugs look? Depending on that could depend on if you have the correct timing .. Cold starting and hot no start sometimes require the timing to be advanced.. Yank a plug out to see if it is black..

Does the engine spin over evenly or does it struggle and spin.. An one last thing.. a vacuum line might be cracked or sucking air when engine gets warm and air gaps warp under the carb.... take a can of either and spray lightly around those areas with the engine running..If it revs up..you have a leak ><<<< OlE SkooL

Trannyman
05-14-2013, 05:21 PM
Ok, back again. Winter is over and the truck ran fine and started all winter long. Now that it's getting warm again I'm having the same problems. I'm thinking no spark. I Tuned it up (plugs, wires, cap and button) and it started and ran smoother than it has in a while (at idle). So thinking that's not the entire hot weather problem I decided to switch out the coil as well. Since then, no start at all. I tried a different coil so that's not the problem. The only thing different on it is the condenser attached to the negative post of the coil. I also changed out the relay/module that sits just below the rotor button on top of the distributor. All wires are seated properly on both ends and in the right order. Thanks in advance!

You would think that if the truck was running and ten minutes later after you put a coil on that it no longer runs.... that something would be amiss with the coil or the installation.

Cranky
05-14-2013, 06:54 PM
Pull on the wires that goes into the distributor and make sure it's ok. Had a car that had a similar problem and the pickup wire where it went into the distributor was the problem.....

dodgeboy8
05-14-2013, 06:55 PM
Why did you put a condenser on the coil. If it is electronic ignition I'm sure it does not need it points only so no condenser after 71 to 72 and should have been in the dizzy by the points on a mopar anyway!

dodgeboy8
05-14-2013, 07:15 PM
Set the reluctor gape in the dizzy to .004 too as Fugly suggested last summer!

irishrrt
05-15-2013, 08:55 AM
Some of the plugs coming out did look nasty and a few were black. All have been replaced. ***Wires are all seated properly. ***Condenser is on the truck from the factory, I just replaced it because of a frayed wire. ***Reluctor gap is good info, I just put it in and screwed it down but it still wasn't firing before I replaced that part. I'll give that a shot.

dodgeboy8
05-15-2013, 09:33 AM
If you don't have points does the capacitor not go on the positive side of the coil for radio noise suppression? I guess it does go to the negative side for radio noise suppression. But will run without try it with it off!